Zac Zinger Interview on Okami Henkyokushuu Vol.2 Jazz
By Caitlin Argyros and Stephen Meyerink

January 15, 2016 Zac Zinger is a multi-talented musician with a love for all things jazz. He's composed for films and video games, and has performed alongside some of the biggest names in the game music industry. He recently put together a wonderful jazz album for one of Capcom's most distinctive titles, Okami. We had a chance to speak with Zac about this album of smooth tunes and much more.

Note: We originally spoke with Zac last spring. Circumstances kept us from publishing this interview before now, but we still think it would be an interesting read for fans of Okami and Zac's work alike. Enjoy!

Zac Zinger
RPGFan: Can you tell us a little bit about your background in music? How did you get started playing jazz? What other styles of music do you like to listen to or play?

Zac Zinger: I've been hearing jazz for as long I can remember. My dad is a huge jazz fan and has a gigantic vinyl collection, so there was rarely a time when music wasn't playing in our household. Because of this, jazz came naturally to me when I picked up the alto saxophone at age nine. From there, I learned to play flute, then EWI (Electronic Wind Instrument), then clarinet, and most recently shakuhachi (traditional Japanese bamboo flute). I'll also pound on the piano with my fists like a gorilla when I'm writing, though I've never had any formal training with it.

I try to listen to as many different kinds of music as I can, but there is a lot out there! I usually write for live instruments, so I really admire what composers of electronic music do, and I'm aspiring to learn more about it so I can integrate more of it into my work. In addition to jazz, I love to play jazz fusion, funk, and blues, and recently, I've been playing a lot of Japanese traditional music while I hone my shakuhachi chops. And, of course, video game music!

Listen to Rising Sun
RPGFan: Can you talk a little bit about some of your other projects?

Zac: Most recently, I composed for the upcoming Street Fighter V, and in September we released another jazz quartet album featuring the music of Monster Hunter, Monster Hunter: The Jazz. This was my second time re-arranging the music of Monster Hunter, though last time was in 2012 and for big band, entitled Monster Hunter Swing. About two years ago, I had a chance to write an orchestral score for Mobile Suit Gundam: Side Stories, which was a real thrill, and I'm currently working on an indie game called Armed and Gelatinous, which features various sentient amoebas blasting each other with guns and rockets in space. I've also been working with composer Jeff Williams to arrange the score and soundtracks for the web series RWBY. Aside from that, I have also written and arranged for film, a marching band with forty saxophones, an Argentinian pop harpist, a variety of chamber ensembles and a handful of indie games. It's been an interesting vibe!

The group that is featured on the CD is my jazz fusion quartet, the Zac Zinger Group. When we're not playing video game music, we play my original fusion material, combining jazz with a range of different styles. I'm really excited about it because it allows me to write and play whatever I want, free from any stylistic restrictions. For that reason, I feel it's some of my most honest music. I also have a duet named Kai in which I play shakuhachi with a guitarist. We play jazz arrangements of Japanese traditional music along with some originals. I'm trying to let more people know what the shakuhachi is, and how versatile it can be.

RPGFan: So tell us about how this album came to be. Was Capcom looking for someone to do a jazz album for Okami, or did you propose the idea to them? How did the process work in general?

Zac: I had worked with CAPCOM on the aforementioned Monster Hunter Swing album in 2012, so they already knew me. This year, they were releasing three volumes of Okami re-arrange albums: one in a chiptune style, one in a jazz style, and one in a lounge style. CAPCOM contacted me through an agency in Japan, which then contacted me with the idea for the jazz album. I'm really into Japanese traditional music, so when they sent me some sample tracks from the OST, I got really excited! After selecting the tunes, I was off and arranging!

I spent about 1 1/2 months arranging and sequencing the music for CAPCOM's review. Once they approved an arrangement, I would make the sheet music and send it to my players to practice. We had three rehearsals prior to the recording session date. I was nervous that wouldn't be enough, but that's why you get great players! After recording, I took the assets home and mixed the album over a period of about two weeks. It was then sent off to CAPCOM, who mastered it, and before I knew it, I was holding the CD in my hands!

Listen to Waka's Promenade~Playing With Waka
RPGFan: You worked with several other talented musicians on this album. What was that collaboration like? Do you have any amusing anecdotes you can share with our readers?

Zac: I can't say enough what a pleasure it was working with these fantastic musicians. Takeshi Ohbayashi (keys), Dylan Kaminkow (bass), and Tim "Smithsoneon" Smith (drums) all exceeded my expectations, and working with such high-level talent made my job as a bandleader a breeze. I worried about my own playing much more than any of them!

We had only two days to record the whole album, so there was a professional tone kept throughout the session. Dylan happens to be a 10th degree black belt in the art of terrible puns, so if we started to get stressed or tired, we could always count on him to lighten the mood!

Zac Zinger
RPGFan: The album kicks things off with one of the most iconic pieces from the game, "The Sun Rises," and there are several other popular selections from the soundtrack, such as the theme song "Reset." How did you go about arranging standout pieces like these in a jazz style? Was it difficult to find a balance between the original themes and your jazz variations?

Zac: I think it's important for an album like this to have variety, so I tried to use a different approach to arranging each piece. The biggest challenge of doing an album like this is making the arrangements recognizable, but different enough from the original to be interesting. A typical video game track is looped after a minute or two, with some as short as thirty seconds, but an album track usually needs to be at least four minutes long. That's a lot of extra space to fill, and even though it's jazz, you can't just fill it with improvisation or it won't be recognizable anymore. So, you need to find ways to stretch, shrink, and turn the melody on its head so that the piece maintains its continuity while still being unpredictable. Improvisation, which is the basis of a lot of jazz, becomes just one of many tools that can contribute to the arrangement. I also watched videos of gameplay to guide my arranging — it wouldn't be good to turn a boss fight into a ballad!

Speaking specifically, I knew "The Sun Rises" would be the first track on the album, so I needed to make a strong statement right at the top. I wanted to grab the listener and say, "get ready, this is Okami, and this is jazz," so I started off with the solo saxophone playing the main theme with authority. In the OST, this track stays energetic throughout. That's appropriate for a video game, but would be exhausting to listen to as an album track, which requires more of an arc to its energy. So when the piano takes over, I put us in half time. The bass figure that gets passed around the band after the improvised saxophone solo is actually the same as the harp turnaround near the loop point in the original track, but it's slowed down to half the speed. When I sent this to CAPCOM, they thought it was something I had composed myself!

"Reset" didn't require a very involved arrangement. It stands as such a great tune on its own, I just needed to find a way to complement that beautiful melody. Once I decided to make it into a classic-style jazz tune, its success rested largely on the players' shoulders. I told Takeshi to play like Bill Evans, and he did a flawless impression.

CAPCOM gave me a lot of creative freedom on this album. I had a say in which tracks would be on the album, I was allowed to arrange them pretty much however I wanted, I chose the players I wanted, and mixed it the way I wanted. I think they only gave me one revision through the entire process!

Listen to Ryoshima Plains
RPGFan: The Okami soundtrack is full of awesome music to choose from. How did you pick just a few tracks to feature on the album? Were you thinking about what would work well as a jazz tune, or were there other criteria for your selections?

Zac: I listened to the entire Okami soundtrack several times, adding to a playlist the ones I thought could be good jazz arrangements. From there, we cross-referenced with sales figures for the top thirty most popular Okami songs to determine which ones people would actually recognize/want to hear. I ended up with a list of about ten, four of which I thought would work well, four of which might work well, and two that would be difficult and/or a crazy experiment. Tsuzurao's Theme was suggested almost as an afterthought, but it became one of my favorites!

RPGFan: Speaking of selections, there was a very interesting track choice on the album. How did "A Great Monster Lies in Wait" make the cut? Can you talk briefly about how you jazzed up one of the most traditional pieces on the soundtrack?

Zac: You guessed one of the crazy experiments! We had actually decided on a ten-track album, but when I heard this one I instantly knew it would be cool as a Jaco Pastorius-style bass solo. I asked CAPCOM to include it as a bonus track, but I don't think they were totally convinced until after it was recorded that it would be a good addition to the album.

As far as arranging goes, I have to give most of the credit to Dylan. I'm not a bass player, so I knew he would come up with something better off the top of his head than I could ever write. I transcribed the piece and made it into a lead sheet, then gave Dylan some general verbal instructions (slap here, slide here, harmonic here, etc.). He listened to the original and came up with the rest. I think he used a nickel for the sliding sound effect in the beginning!

Listen to Kushinada's Ride
RPGFan: Are there any pieces from the soundtrack you really wanted to feature but couldn't squeeze in? If Capcom asked for a second Okami jazz album, what would be on it?

Zac: Yes there were! This game has so much fantastic music, we could have made it a two-CD set. Some of my favorites that didn't make the cut were "Brave Warrior Oki," "Oira's Theme," "Prologue," and "The Canine Warriors' Theme."

RPGFan: Who are some of the musicians and industry figures that have left the biggest mark on you and your work?

Zac: Without a doubt, the Yellowjackets have been my biggest influence. When I heard their Greenhouse album at age 18, it was a harmonic revelation. It opened my mind to a world of jazz that didn't have to swing, that was based on composition rather than improvisation, and that made jazz accessible to non-musicians and musicians alike. Bruce Huebner introduced me to the world of shakuhachi, which has become a major part of my life ever since I saw him play with the Tokyo Big Band.

In video games, Final Fantasy X was the first time I heard game music that carried the story rather than just being something to fill space in the background. That was the game that got me interested in game music. Also, Koji Kondo's classic themes are genius for their strong, memorable memories; before that I don't think anyone would have listened to bleeps and bloops for hours on end without going insane.

Listen to The Tribe of Heavenly Gods' Theme
RPGFan: On a similar note, if you could collaborate with any musician — living or dead, regardless of language barrier or genre — who would it be?

Zac: This one is tough. I'd want to collaborate with someone who does something completely different from me, because I could learn much more from that kind of collaboration. The problem is, since it's a paradox to be involved in the world of things that I am not involved in, I don't know who that would be! That being said, I think working on a game together with Koji Kondo would be an amazing experience. He did more to define what video game music is than anyone, setting a precedent for everyone else to follow at a time when there were very few role models. I would love to better understand how he thinks of music in video games, and learn what inspires those incredible themes.

Okami Henkyokushuu Vol.2 Jazz
Buy this album from CDJapan
Read our Review
RPGFan: Do you have any personal favorite game soundtracks? Or any songs you totally love from a particular soundtrack?

Zac: Well, of course Okami has really grown on me in the last few months! I'm really interested Japanese traditional music, so Okami was right up my alley from the very beginning. A friend recently introduced me to Persona 4 Golden, which instantly became my favorite game and soundtrack. The beauty of that soundtrack is how it sets a continuous tone for the game's world through 70+ hours, so it's very hard to choose a favorite track. As I mentioned before, the soundtrack to Final Fantasy X will always have a special place in my heart, and even its sequel has some great music. "Ending Theme" from Final Fantasy X is the one that changed my career course, so I guess if I had to choose, that would be my favorite track!

Soundtracks — game, movie, or TV — have an advantage when it comes to affecting a person's emotions. The music evokes the same feelings we had when we experienced a moment for the first time (or in the case of games, the 100th hour), so we can develop a more profound attachment to it than a piece of music made "for music's sake." I cried at the end of Final Fantasy X, and I gasped at a certain critical moment of Persona 4. The music played a huge part in spurring those reactions, so those are the moments I remember whenever I hear the soundtracks. That's what I love about game music. My hope is that by rearranging the music in a different style, players will have a chance to relive their favorite moments in a fresh new light.

RPGFan: Is there anything else you'd like to say to fans or those interested in your further work?

Zac: Thank you for listening! It's a privilege to have people who have a relationship with the music listen to my arrangements, and I know they'll be listening closely. I really hope you enjoy it!

Those who would like to know more can check out my website at www.zaczingermusic.com. You can tell me what you thought about the album there, and listen to samples of my other work too if you're interested!